Future Scientist Award. Where are they now: Kang Tam

The PERSOLKELLY Future Scientist Award is now open. The Award gives science graduates the opportunity to showcase themselves to employers from Australia’s leading scientific companies, get advice on how to present and prepare for interviews from our specialist Scientific recruiters and go in the running to win $1000.

We spoke to 2018 finalist, Kang Tam, who is now working as an Environmental Scientist, to find out about his experience in the Award Program.

How did you find out about Future Scientist?

In the second year of my degree, I vaguely remember seeing a PEROLKELLY Scientific stall at my university’s STEM Career Fair. They were promoting the Award program at the time, so I kept a brochure of it until I was eligible to apply once I had graduated.

Can you describe your experience participating in the Future Scientist Award program?

I remember feeling quite nervous about it, but it was all so new and exciting to me! There was an element of freedom in participating because it didn’t feel like I was applying for a specific job with specific selection criteria. As a finalist, I was able to sell myself to a panel of professionals in a way that brought out all my best sides.

Can you list your three highlights from the program?

  • Meeting other STEM graduates and hearing about their backgrounds and career goals
  • Being able to present and network with a group of well-established industry professionals (and some of them may even be hiring!)
  • Getting hired!

How has the Future Scientist Award Program helped you in your career?

My current manager was a part of the Award panel at the time. I approached her afterwards to express my interest in getting experience in her area of expertise. While I didn’t end up winning the award, I later got offered a position as a graduate scientist at their company. Put simply, the Future Scientist Award helped kickstart my career.

What are your career plans?

The environmental sector is huge. I have been working in the contaminated sites space for the past two years. My long-term goal is to refine my technical expertise in this area, but also branch out and experience other facets of environmental work.

What advice would you give current Science graduates?

Find ways to keep yourself immersed in the industry. Do an online course, attend graduate events, see what professional associations are out there. Network with everyone you meet! Learn to celebrate small victories, be it updating your CV, forming a connection with someone who works in your industry or making it to the next stage of an interview process. And why not give the Future Scientist program a go while you are at it!

The Future Scientist Award is open to applications from those in the final semester of, or graduated in the last 12 months from a Bachelor of Science, BSc Hons, MSc or PhD (science discipline).

To win the 2021 Future Scientist Award you must complete an online application, including uploading a current resume, your academic record to date, and tell us why you think you should be the Future Scientist Award winner for 2021.

Apply for the 2021 Future Scientist Award today!

Can the best candidate for a job be the one with no experience?

Building a great team is the most challenging part of running a great business. As owners, CEOs and hiring managers, we’ve honed the interview questions we ask as part of a formula to help determine whether a candidate is suitably experienced and qualified for a position. However, there’s only really one key question we need to answer: “Who is the best fit for the job?” Sometimes, that person is a total wild card.

Experience is a key factor in making hiring decisions, yet the type of experience that makes a candidate the right choice isn’t always so obvious. If you look around, there are examples of this in all industries and companies.

Recently, we were recruiting for someone to head up our Queensland region for PERSOLKELLY. We are a leading recruitment company across APAC and therefore, as a hiring manager for our business, I should know how to hire someone by now (or so you think I would!). During the process we received more than 60 applications; 90% of these applications had recruitment industry management experience and 80% were local to the Queensland market. We also received some internal applications given we are a Programmed Group company, part of the leading provider of Maintenance and Operations in the country.

Jodie Mott was one of our internal applicants, she had been working for our Programmed Facility Management business for the past six years. A well-respected leader in our business, Jodie is a Senior Executive with 15+ years’ experience in facilities management, utilities, tourism and not-for-profit sectors in Australia and the Pacific – but she didn’t have recruitment industry experience like those who she competed with for the role.

After learning that Jodie was on the market for a relocation back to Brisbane, despite feeling that she may be an unconventional hire in comparison to what we set out for from an industry experience level, I felt it would be negligent on my behalf not to interview, understand and assess Jodie’s suitability for the role.

Someone with Jodie’s background normally wouldn’t have been a target for us. Yet, once we invested the time, we saw her as a strong candidate. Jodie may not have had the direct industry experience we expected we’d be looking for, however, she was already familiar with our business, culturally aligned with proven customer centricity behaviours and a people focussed leader with highly trusted reference checks. More specifically, we knew she would bring unique insight to our team that didn’t yet exist.

Given Jodie was responsible for a facilities management portfolio including large client contracts with Curtin University, University of Western Australia (UWA), Transperth, Water Corporation, Ronald McDonald House and Medical Research Fund, we knew that our customers would be in great hands. Prior to this Jodie was ultimately responsible for the management and service delivery of the Facilities, Utilities and Support Services on Western Australia’s Rottnest Island. She led a team of 120 people with all the skills required for our vacancy including general management, compliance, budget and forecasting, sales, service, commercial negotiations, contract management and so much more. It became obvious to me that she was the person we needed.

What made Jodie a desirable candidate was not only her management skill set, but rather the valuable insight, experience and knowledge that she cultivated while working with a different part of our organisation.  She had also successfully proven her capability multiple times by stepping into an entirely different role than she’d ever held previously. As Jodie was already familiar with our organisational background and knew some team members, there was also less of an onboarding process.

Ultimately, the decision benefited all parties – Jodie quickly secured a new job and a relocation with a company she knows and loves, and we gained a team member with a distinct skill set and perspective.

Finally, as I do with all my hires, I can confidently answer YES to my final three questions:

  1. Can they do the job to the level I need? YES
  2. Will they love the job and our culture? YES
  3. Will I be able to tolerate working with them? YES!

An individual may not have experience in a similar role or industry, but due to their background, be it an internal applicant, a customer or a good person with transferrable skills and excellent cultural fit  – he or she may already know your language, live and breathe your values, uncover new gaps or have a unique outlook on what is and isn’t effective in order to be the right fit for your next hire.

I would love to hear your stories of the best candidate for a job being the one with no experience.

Future Scientist Award. Where are they now: Andrew Tilley

The PERSOLKELLY Future Scientist Award is now open. The Award gives science graduates the opportunity to showcase themselves to employers from Australia’s leading scientific companies, get advice on how to present and prepare for interviews from our specialist Scientific recruiters and go in the running to win $1000.

Andrew Tilley was a 2017 finalist, now working in Innovation Food Technology. We spoke to Andrew about his experience in the Award Program.

Can you describe your experience participating in the Future Scientist Award program?

Valuable. The program was an excellent opportunity to develop my public speaking and interview skills. PERSOLKELLY gave great support in helping us articulate our career aspirations and sell ourselves as professionals. Additionally, the program was a great way to meet other people from different science disciplines and work places that I otherwise would not have met. A great experience all up!

Can you list your three highlights from the program?

  • Being pushed out of my comfort zone to speak in front of an industry panel.
  • Meeting the other candidates, the helpful people at PERSOLKELLY and the industry panel.
  • The career opportunities that came with being a part of the program. A chance to present yourself to a room of leading science industry professionals as well as the support Kelly Scientific gave in finding work post-program.

Has the Future Scientist Award Program helped you in your career?

Yes, being relatively new out of university I was not familiar with the services that recruitment agencies such as PERSOLKELLY could offer. The program helped me engage with them and through PERSOLKELLY I was able to secure work at my current workplace.

What are your career plans?

I see myself staying within the food/agricultural sector, particularly in a project/technical role. I have recently started a project management course to help further develop my capabilities in product development.

What advice would you give current Science graduates?

Say yes to opportunities like the Future Scientist Award. You never know what doors will open from engaging in these programs.

The Future Scientist Award is open to applications from those in the final semester of, or graduated in the last 12 months from a Bachelor of Science, BSc Hons, MSc or PhD (science discipline).

To win the 2021 Future Scientist Award you must complete an online application, including uploading a current resume, your academic record to date, and tell us why you think you should be the Future Scientist Award winner for 2021.

Apply for the 2021 Future Scientist Award today!

Women in STEM Series: Leslie Chong

Imugene CEO and MD, Leslie Chong has over 22 years of experience in leading clinical and department development in oncology therapies. We spoke to her about female role models in STEM, the challenges she’s faced in her career and how she got to where she is. 

What inspired you to enter this line of work? 

I initially entered this line of work because it was lucrative, and it was a career path that could provide me with opportunities to travel and visit major cancer institutions. It was pretty exciting.  

When my dad was diagnosed with gastric cancer, it really elevated my commitment to my work; it became something that was more profound. During that time, my career was equally taking off, so this personal drive became important. I wanted to solve this puzzle that is cancer.  

I ended up moving to Australia to head up a company that solely focused on immunotherapies, so this trajectory of my career and personal work in science just grew.  

I could not recommend a better career for a woman than being a part of a lifelong change that is to alleviate malignant and chronic diseases. It’s been quite rewarding. 

“I could not recommend a better career for a woman… It’s been quite rewarding.” 

What drives you? 

I have this drive to do better, not only as a female but as a minority in the STEM line of work. I think females are great multi-taskers and the ability to think differently. Our natural ability to multi-task and funnel our emotions and passions into day-to-day tasks really helps motivate me to be bigger and better at everything I do.

When it comes to excelling in your career, how important is it to value yourself? 

It’s extremely important. Growing up female, my parents always told me I had to behave, and behave better than the males. As a result, I think there’s an insecurity that comes into play, whether I like it or not that I can’t just be good, I have to be better.

I have dear female friends who are in huge leadership roles, and they tell me they have imposter syndrome, and I think: ‘we need to start owning our leadership skills and the avenues we’ve taken and the things we’ve strived so hard for’.  

We need to have that attitude, that yes, we’re here because we’ve worked extremely hard to get here and we’re going to continue working extremely hard because we need to set examples for other females in the future.  

“We need to have that attitude, that yes, we’re here because we’ve worked extremely hard to get here and we’re going to continue working extremely hard because we need to set examples for other females in the future.” 

How do we work on getting rid of imposter syndrome? 

Having more examples of females in STEM leadership roles. I know racial and gender inequalities are different avenues, but I remember growing up in the southern states of the US and watching TV and not having leadership role models that looked anything like me. That played a really big part. If you see role-models that look like you, you could see that there are avenues and opportunities to strive to be that person one day. 

What are some of the achievements that you’re most proud of? 

I think everything I’ve ever done has been based on making my parents proud. I really feel like my father would be quite interested in the work I’m doing.

I’m really proud of the fact that hopefully, I’ll have something to give back to humanity with the work that I’m doing. 

“If you see role-models that look like you, you can strive to be that person one day.” 

What qualities make a good leader? 

Being curious and a desire to be good at what you do and being authentic. 

I strive to be authentic in my personal and career life – if you’re unable to be authentic, it’s hard to come across as genuine.  

I also think it’s important to keep being curious and strive to be good at anything you do. I am curious about everything and I like being good at things and getting noticed for it.   I have a work ethic that has been drilled into me by my parents. 

Why is it so hard for people to be themselves? 

When I started working in key leadership roles, I started mimicking the attributes that I thought a leader should have: aggressive, stand-up-for-yourself, always be the person who is right or knows the answers. I don’t know where that came from – it must have been what was set forth before me. As I came into my own, I think I went back to that authenticity and being true to myself.  

What are the differences in the challenges you faced at the start of your career VS the challenges you face today as a CEO? 

When I first started my career I was out for self, and not really listening. I remember thinking that I was too high a level or too good to write the minutes for a clinical team meeting, and now I’m finding out that the higher you go, the sharper your administrative skills need to be and owning and writing your own minutes for a meeting is not beneath anyone.

Something that I always say to everyone in my company is: no matter how high you move up in one’s position, you’re always going to be an admin to someone. 

As your leadership capacity grows, you will find the finer the tuning of your management and listening skills need to be.    

“I’m really proud of the fact that hopefully, I’ll have something to give back to humanity with the work that I’m doing.” 

How important is it to have mentors? 

Absolutely important. I’ve always gravitated towards having female mentors. There are so few females in our line of work, so you really want to tap into how they got there and what motivates them to be here.  

Looking back on your career, would you do anything differently, if given the chance? 

I don’t think that I would do anything different. I think we all try to do things so that we don’t have regrets in the future, because that’s a very difficult thing. The decision-making process can be a little laborious for me, because I try to get things right so that I don’t have any regrets.  I do feel extremely lucky to have this wonderfully rewarding career and life. I am grateful. 

What are some of the projects you’re currently working on at Imugene? 

One of the reasons I joined this company is because of the work we’re doing. In basic terms, it’s turning on your immune system against one’s own particular cancer target.  

In the case of Imugene, we have two platforms.  Our Oncolytic Viraltherapy where a virus infiltrates the malignant cancer cells and invokes your own immunity to come and assist in destroying it. It’s this beautiful process, getting your body back to what it should be doing, a healthy innate and organic immune system. 

Our other platform is a B-cell activating immunotherapies. This is where your b-cells create the antibodies against a particular cancer target. We’ve been fortunate that we’ve had a study data where we’ve shown that there’s a lot more safety when you have endogenously created the antibodies rather than inject the synthetic antibodies.  
 
The line of work is finally fruiting some significant data.   

Find out more about Imugene and Leslie Chong.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.

PERSOLKELLY: 2020 and beyond

This year has presented unprecedented challenges across Australia and the world. These challenges have also been met with opportunities to innovate and grow.

Like so many people and businesses, our team has been through challenging conditions this year, having navigated the integration of two businesses and a rebrand during a pandemic. Their response and the commitment of our leadership team has given me the confidence that we’re leading PERSOLKELLY to great things.

Although our name might be new, PERSOLKELLY has a long legacy. We’re an organisation that has been delivering value across Australia, New Zealand and the Asia Pacific region for decades through Kelly Services, Skilled, Programmed and PERSOL. I have real gratitude for the way in which our teams have been able to unite to form something fresh and different, with a common goal.

Since our rebrand, the client feedback we’ve received has been overwhelmingly positive. They’re excited and confident in our offering: a sole focus on white-collar with deeper specialisation and breadth of capability across Professional Services, Government, ICT, STEM, Management and Executive.

This year at PERSOLKELLY we’ve managed to either keep or gain employment for thousands of Australians and I’m pleased with the positive impact we have been able to make for so many employees and employers. Our culture revolves around operating as one team, there are many examples of teamwork to make this happen, but one example amidst the pandemic was providing over 400 Call Centre Operators to a leading telecommunications employer who we’ve been partnering with for 21 years.

We were required to meet tight turnaround times with streamlined communications through a national account manager and consultants in each state.  Our consultants screened thousands of applications, coordinated phone interviews, conducted reference checks, handled testing and developed shortlists. Innovative assessment centres were held in our offices, involving up to 20 participants at one time, focused on customer service behaviours and creative teamwork exercises. Final appointments are made after this phase, where we then support rostering with our online tool called RosterOn. I’m so proud of the team for this. I’m also proud of them for many other achievements, be it securing a career in STEM for another female, or a Chief Finance Officer for one of Australia’s largest employers.

As we enter the new year, you can expect to see a lot of energy from PERSOLKELLY, passion and a proactive approach to trying new things.

The development of our people, who are ultimately the key to our success, will continue to be at the forefront of our thinking as a people-first business.

We’re also focused on expanding our team, and have already started our search for experienced recruiters, looking for a new challenge with one of Australia’s leading staffing and recruitment providers.

I cannot be more grateful of the way our team has embraced the journey we embarked on this year, and I look forward to shaping 2021 into a year of possibility alongside them.

We’re always on the hunt for great people to join our team. If you’re confident and caring, proactive and passionate, smart and resourceful, and want to kick-start or continue your career in helping others achieve their career goals, then we’d love to hear from you.

To register your interest in a future with PERSOLKELLY, visit our careers page.

Future Scientist Award: Where are they now?

Last week, we launched the PERSOLKELLY Future Scientist Award, which gives science graduates the opportunity to showcase themselves to employers from Australia’s leading scientific companies, get advice on how to present and prepare for interviews from our specialist Scientific recruiters and go in the running to win $1000.

Jack Kent was a finalist in the Future Scientist Award in 2016 and went on to receive an offer of employment from a company that saw him present. We followed up with Jack to find out more about his experience.

Jack Kent was a 2016 finalist in the Future Scientist Award

What was your Future Scientist Award experience like?

While I was progressing through the Future Scientist Award, I was in the middle of writing my thesis, so I was a bundle of frayed nerves. The PERSOLKELLY team were incredibly supportive and informative. They gave me the assistance I needed to put my best foot forward to potential employers. This included coaching me throughout the process to develop my written application skills and answer questions well in an interview setting. They also threw in some pro tips for how to deal with nerves when they inevitably came up.

What were some highlights?

  1. The chance to participate in, answer questions and practice how to present myself in a job interview. I was also grateful for the opportunity to gain feedback from experienced people who see many candidates
  2. Presenting to a room full of industry professionals, speaking to my ambitions, my strengths and what I value.
  3. Receiving an offer of employment from a company who saw me present. Meaning that I went from education to employment in the time it took to resign from my current role.

How has the Future Scientist Award Program helped you in your career?

I received a fantastic head start in my career! Most people spend months looking for their first role and mine came straight to me. This meant that I was developing myself and learning in a professional setting as soon as I was finished with my coursework.

What are your career plans?

Firstly, I want to keep working at companies that do something really cool and innovative.

In the coming years I’d like to be able to train, mentor and manage ambitious team members.

I’d like myself and my team to contribute significantly towards large goals that benefit people’s quality of life and increase individual’s health span. 

What advice would you give current Science graduates?

Keep an open mind and diversify your skills and interests to cast the widest net possible.

A science degree at its core is a lesson in procedure and how to think critically and analytically. Look for opportunities to apply your strengths to organisations who may be lacking in these skills.

Don’t expect to do what you’ve always done, instead look for opportunities to apply your knowledge and your way of thinking to new areas.

The Future Scientist Award is open to applications from those in the final semester of, or graduated in the last 12 months from a Bachelor of Science, BSc Hons, MSc or PhD (science discipline).

To win the 2021 Future Scientist Award you must complete an online application, including uploading a current resume, your academic record to date, and tell us why you think you should be the Future Scientist Award winner for 2021.

Apply for the 2021 Future Scientist Award today!

If you’re green you grow, if you’re ripe you rot!

“When you are green, you grow. When you are ripe, you rot!”

I’ve been thinking about this quote after a recent discussion with a mentor and former CEO of mine who referred to this concept almost every week in my time working with her. These words had a strong impact on me as a young professional and I find myself regularly referring to them when I’m looking for comfort in tough situations. They sprung to mind recently during an especially challenging period of organisational change and growth at work.

I wrote recently about the comfort zone, and the need to put yourself in uncomfortable situations to get better, to learn and grow – read the blog post here – what I didn’t think about when I wrote it is that sometimes you get thrown into an uncomfortable situation without asking for it. It may not have been your choice, however you can control how you handle the situation.

At a breakfast event this week I heard from Richard Goyder AO – the chair of Qantas, the AFL and iconic children’s charity Telethon, among other roles. COVID-19 has wreaked havoc across our economy and few have had a hand in dealing with its fallout across as many industries as he has. When the virus hit, flights were grounded and the AFL went on standby before making tough calls to keep playing under a hub scheme.

As chair of Telethon, Richard also had the crucial task of helping to ensure the fundraising event could still go ahead and provide much-needed support to families and communities. What I learned from his speech was how much leadership matters! That the best leaders are good at controlling what they can control, acknowledge when there are frustrating situations, that they are human beings and have moments of feeling disappointed. However, that they focus on supporting their people even better when times are tough and focus on solutions not just the problems. That most effective leaders, like Richard, in some ways seem to thrive on the added responsibility, remain calm and realise that they’re learning a hell of a lot which will be good in the long run.

Physical discomfort also requires a mental toughness. I recall a time when I was a teenager, in a junior Aussie rules footy squad where we were completing these hill sprints, hill sprint after hill sprint and my body was almost shutting down due to exhaustion, several teammates were vomiting from exertion and it felt never ending. It is more than 20 years ago now, yet I can still recall the pain and discomfort I experienced, yet afterwards it was a rewarding feeling to know that I didn’t give up and my mind could get through it.

And when the GFC hit Australia in 2007-2008, I also went through many uncomfortable moments as a manager, moments that always seemed like a lose/lose situation, but I got through the pain and anguish and came out the other side stronger for the experience. I recall referring to the GFC at that time as my MBA!  

Like those hill sprints and during my career in the GFC, there have been other times where I would briefly contemplate throwing in the towel, but my mind is now trained to never wander off into that zone for more than a few moments. After recovering from each tough moment that I have been through, the impact seems to be that my confidence levels rise.

When I spoke to my former CEO recently, she reminded me that adversity brings opportunity – to set short term goals, keep one eye on the longer-term goals and push through. She reiterated that adversity provides an opportunity for both personal and organisational growth and for the individuals who remain composed and focused under pressure, the rewards can be huge.

For a long time I’ve had some big and clear goals in terms of where I would like my career to get to, and what I have realised is that clarity with your goals does great things for holding yourself accountable and maintaining resilience.

“When you are green, you grow. When you are ripe, you rot!” – Unlike aging which is degeneration, the body, in particular your health, spirit, and mind, have to adapt in order to grow – if you’re not learning something new, you might ripen and rot before your time!

I see it with people around me from time to time, those who resist change – you know the type, you’re probably sitting in an office with a couple of them now – those who have a “know-it-all” attitude. Recruitment Industry expert Greg Savage hit the nail on the head in one in particular post where he writes about “Dinosaurs, who are always looking backwards, scoff at training sessions…Intransigent fossils, who dismiss success by new-comers with fresh ideas, as ‘luck’, and complain that new technology, designed to help them become more efficient, merely ‘gives them more admin to do’. And slowly these people start to fail.”

When you look at it, when the challenges have stopped is the time when people age or ‘rot’ more rapidly.

I often pay it forward and share stories with my own team members in management roles about what I see in top performers in the business world;

  • That to improve as a leader they simply must continually push the envelope on their leadership skills.
  • That, similar to one of Jim Collins’ messages in his book Good to Great where he points out that good is the enemy of great, I believe comfort is the enemy of improvement.
  • The moment they become fully satisfied with their skills will be the moment they are in the danger zone of rotting!

The last thing which hit home when my old boss gave me some advice was her focus on me looking after me. She basically demanded that I had to focus on good balance with my family despite any type of challenging period and additional pressure, ensure I sleep well, get regular exercise, go easy on the alcohol or partying (‘don’t booze it up too much’ were her words!) to be able to manage my mind to remain fresh and that I cannot do it all despite the mind potentially wanting to take it all on.

So, my question to you in your career as it stands today – are you GREEN because you are choosing to be in the process of learning, growing, developing, and becoming all that you can be your role? Or are you RIPE because you are feeling that you have ‘arrived’ and do not need to learn too much else to maintain your current position.

Stay in the ongoing ripening process because remember what happens if you are already ripe – you might start to rot!

Written by Kurt Gillam

Kurt is the Executive General Manager at PERSOLKELLY Australia and an Executive Leadership Team Member at Programmed. Working for the largest recruitment brand in APAC and one of the largest employers in Australia, with a strong depth and breadth of experience, Kurt is focused on building outstanding people, strong customers and great communities.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.

Diversity: let’s talk about action

It’s no secret that there’s increasing demand and a downright business case for improving diversity within organisations.

The benefits are endless across the tangible and intangible spectrum, from increased creativity, improved decision making, reduced turnover, access to new markets and a proven positive impact on financial performance.

The challenges can not and should not be ignored, namely potential for communication breakdown and lack of employee cohesion, however, there is a great deal of advice on how to handle these.

So, the question is, what are you and your organisation doing to drive diversity?

Being part of the Programmed family, PERSOLKELLY embrace diversity, equality and inclusion as one of our core values.

And we don’t just talk the talk, we walk the walk:

  • PERSOLKELLY run an annual Future Scientist Award program. We partner with local universities to engage recent science graduates and provide a platform for them to present to a panel of keen hiring managers.  
  • We have a working group who are formalising initiatives to drive our engagement with STEM candidates, including creating resources, candidate and client networking groups and sponsoring women in STEM-related education awards.
  • PERSOLKELLY consultants present and provide coaching at various education and industry career events as well as online webinars.
  • We have a specific careers page and Facebook group to connect with indigenous candidates.
  • Our colleagues at Programmed Training Services provide an impressive array of traineeships and apprenticeships, with 41% female participation in male dominated environments and 32% ATSI apprenticeship participation.
  • Our colleagues at Programmed Skilled Workforce have over 160 indigenous candidates on site with clients in the mining sector alone.

I am really proud of our efforts to date, but there is, of course, always room for improvement.

Written by Ashley Speers

Ashley is a Perth-based Business Development Manager, responsible for establishing and driving new client partnerships throughout Western Australia, South Australia and Northern Territory.  Ashely’s experience in the workforce solutions industry spans ten years; she’s worked collaboratively with leading Australian organisations to design, implement and deliver talent solutions pertinent to their business priorities.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.

Is the employer reference check dead? Can it be fixed?

Is anyone as bemused as I am with the traditional process of employer reference checks for candidates?

For some time, I’ve felt that the system we’ve used for decades has fundamental flaws and has almost become a waste of time and effort.

Over the years, I’ve been listed as a referee for many people. It’s something I take seriously, and I always try to make a useful contribution given I know how challenging it is to find great people who not only become top performers in their role but enjoy their job, which we know leads to longevity.

The reference check is just one of several components that helps to make a calculated hiring decision. Done well, it should be given as much importance as work experience, gut feel, first interview, testing results etc. But I’ve noticed many flaws with the process – and it bothers me. 



Often, I don’t get contacted at all, when I do, it’s an email reference check form that I am asked to complete or a quick phone call. It’s always at the end of the hiring process, when the decision about the candidate has largely been made, and the hiring manager is essentially looking for a final confirmation. 

On many occasions, it’s not even the hiring manager making direct contact with me, it’s a task that has been delegated to someone who will have little involvement or accountability for their new employee. In my view, the same person who contacts the candidate should also be involved in the interview process and the reference checks, so they can pull all the pieces of the puzzle together.

During a recent reference check call the recruiter asked me a set of typical reference check questions that were clearly read from a very basic form, and declined on grounds of confidentiality to tell me further information about the role that may have helped me share more relevant information about the candidate.

Carried out this way, the reference check can be a near worthless exercise that does little to shed real light on the applicant, let alone add anything of value for the prospective employer. Why is it like this? 

It’s far from ideal, and the inherent conflicts in the process often have some impact on how diligently it’s undertaken. In fact, the name says it all – it’s a ‘check’ isn’t it? Which implies that it’s merely a confirmation, a safeguard. 

To the employers who complete reference checks to tick a box, my advice would be to do it right – or not at all. Spending an hour on reference checks is a small price to pay for making sure you have got it right. What is the harm in having a genuine and consultative discussion with a referee as opposed to a form-filling exercise?

Why is an important and potentially rich step in the recruitment process so often treated as a ‘tick-and-flick’?

It’s partly due to the nature of the employer reference check, which inherently involves ‘selection bias’. No-one applying for a job knowingly supplies the names of referees who they think will give a bad rap. 

The former employer may think they’re doing the candidate a favour with a glowing reference. Even an employer who has had difficulty with an employee may be tempted to gloss over the negatives, particularly if they’re aiming to move that person out or want to avoid any form of conflict if the applicant blames them for not securing the job given by that stage it was theirs to lose.

To the referees who want to look after their former colleague, there’s little to be gained from glossing over, or worse, embellishing a person’s employment history, simply to shoe-horn them into a role that doesn’t fit. 

So, the quality of the referee information provided by the very person with the greatest self interest in the matter – the applicant – is already conflicted, if not tainted.

So, how can the reference check be made into a tool that delivers real value?

The reference check needs to evolve to gather legitimate, objective information about a candidate which will be of use to a hiring manager or recruiter and aid in finding a suitable role. I’ve identified three areas where a small change could make a big difference:

1. Move the reference check earlier in the process

I believe the reference check is conducted at the wrong time. I’m convinced that it would serve everyone better if it were held closer to the start of the recruitment process, rather than the finish. 

In the current structure, the hiring manager or recruiter has already invested a good deal of time and resources in the recruitment search before they get to the reference check.

They would have conducted a detailed assessment of the candidate or candidates, measured against the selection criteria and cultural alignment, they will have identified and spoken to a number of applicants, perhaps put them through psychometric or other testing and arrived at a short list to present to the hiring manager or employer…. and then all that is standing in their way between a great new hire is the final step of the process – just a few quick phone calls (or emails) to the nominated referees, confirm the earlier assessments, and it should all be wrapped up in no time!

The last thing a hiring manager or recruiter wants is to discover a serious shortcoming in the candidate after all that time and effort. I’m not suggesting that a recruiter would deliberately overlook an obvious red flag that emerges at this stage of the process, but there is a powerful and understandable urge to see their professional judgments affirmed by the (hopefully quick) reference check.

I know this and I have been there recently myself where the last thing I want is to have my talented new hire fall over at the last minute only to be back at square one, yet I’m far too familiar with the cost of a poor hiring decision. 

A balanced approached is key, you are looking for reasons why you shouldn’t employ them as well as why you should, keeping in mind that you can train for skills, so someone who is the right behavioural fit for your business is a key takeout from a reference check.



2. Be transparent and flexible

You will want to have some core questions prepared to help you probe for the information you are seeking, but don’t just tick the boxes one-by-one like the usual reference check – explain what you are looking for and start by asking the referee for a comprehensive overview based on their opinion of their former employee. Listening is essential and you need to be ready to ask probing questions that dig below the surface of each answer you are given. 

You will get a lot more out of the referee if they are relaxed. Be honest about how long you will need to speak to them for – people are time poor, but by asking for 2 minutes of their time you are already showing a lack of respect and value of their input. No one likes being expected to just drop what they are doing, so showing them you respect their time sets the tone for a good reference check.

3. Expand the scope

Expanding the checking process to a wider circle to gain a more in-depth perspective of the candidate is one option. I know one organisation (and granted this was a very senior and public appointment) who spoke to more than twenty referees on their preferred candidate as part of landing their right person for the job – and based on what I am seeing three years in, I have no doubt they have the best person available for their job and as a result are also more educated to better engage and manage their employee which is another important reason for gathering quality background information.

Equally important, the reference phone call itself needs to be comprehensive and inquiring so that it’s used to help identify a candidate’s skills, capabilities, potential and cultural fit.

Currently, the reference check is centred on a given candidate for a given job. But, we need to broaden the parameters – when I’m contacted for a reference check, I try and engage in an honest conversation that helps to clarify the skills being sought, while providing an assessment of the candidate’s capabilities and how they might best fit the role. This more open style of discussion could also reveal how the role could be readily modified to fit the candidate or perhaps even an alternative role they are better suited to.

It’s not unheard of for a genuine referee conversation to identify a different, but better, match for an applicant.

I’m sure that we can better serve all sides – the candidate, the hiring party and the recruiter – if we alter our perspective and look upon the reference check as an opportunity to elicit genuine information that becomes an integral part of the hiring process.

Written by Kurt Gillam

Kurt is the Executive General Manager at PERSOLKELLY Australia and an Executive Leadership Team Member at Programmed. Working for the largest recruitment brand in APAC and one of the largest employers in Australia, with a strong depth and breadth of experience, Kurt is focused on building outstanding people, strong customers and great communities.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.

Diversity & STEM: bridging the gap

It’s evident STEM (Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) careers are expected to experience rapid growth in the coming years.

While engineering and technology candidates are highly sought-after in the STEM sector and well paid, they’re also heavily male-dominated.  

In my role as a STEM recruitment consultant, I’ve seen a number of organisations encouraging the hiring of women candidates and are openly addressing gender disparity. I also recognise the Australian government’s commitment to increasing gender equity in STEM education and careers.

 “Be less curious about people and more curious about ideas” Marie Curie


Despite progressive efforts, gender inequality persists across the country, with women constituting almost 50% of the labour market. There are only 28% of women in STEM fields as compared to 72% of men, with a few factors currently contributing to the situation:

  • Lack of role models and mentoring: We need more women in STEM to help inspire our young people; women who are role models that can share their success stories. Some that I look up to include Marie Curie (the first woman scientist to win a noble prize), Katherine Johnson (NASA Space Scientist), Augusta Ada King (Countess of Lovelace & Mathematician) and Rear Admiral Grace Hopper (Inventor & Computer Scientist).
  • Gender pay gap: Currently, Australia’s national gender pay gap is 14% as per WGEA’s (Workplace Gender Equality Agency) 2020 data report. State-wise, the highest is 22.7% in Western Australia and industry-wise, the highest is 24.1% within professional, scientific and technical services.
  • Career breaks: Around 70% percent of women think that taking maternity/parental leave was detrimental to their career. Did you know, only 1 in 20 Australian fathers take parental leave?

“We all need hands on deck and that means clearing hurdles for women and girls as they navigate careers in science, technology, engineering and maths.” – Michelle Obama

Making a difference

In my role, I’m accountable for making women visible across the STEM field, and I also:

  • believe there’s a need to highlight their skills and represent them equally
  • don’t ask candidates their current salary, instead – I give them a salary range for the role
  • consider flexible working arrangements
  • consult hiring managers to ensure we do not allow these gender biases.

Together with candidates and clients, we can contribute to equal opportunities for women.

We need to make the change happen.

Sources: Professionals Australia survey, Workplace Gender Equality Agency and office of chief scientist.

Written by Poorvi Mehta

Poorvi Mehta is a scientific recruitment consultant with over three years’ experience within FMCG, Pharmaceutical and Medical Devices industries.

Poorvi started her career as a future recruiter with PERSOLKELLY and is now focussed on growing STEM recruitment in Sydney. She has a particular passion for championing diversity within the industry.

Healthy brain breaks for the workplace

Given the year we’ve had, it’s not surprising that the mental health and wellbeing of Australians appears low. According to a recent national survey by Smiling Mind, many are experiencing mental health challenges this year.

Smiling Mind, a non-profit meditation program developed by psychologists and educators, recently released their annual State of Mind Survey which looks at the mental health and wellbeing of Australian adults.

The survey returned an average wellbeing score of 6.2% out of a maximum of 10, with 54.6% of respondents attributing COVID19 to having a moderate to significant detrimental impact on their mental health and wellbeing.

Mental wellbeing in the workplace during COVID19

Programmed’s October Mental Health report has seen a similar trend, with Employee Assistance Programme (EAP) usage up this quarter. More employees have turned to our EAP for counselling or professional guidance, with 106 new cases, an increase of 14 from last quarter, and 123 active cases, an increase of 12.

As well as having access to an EAP, there are several things employees can do to manage mental health and stress in the workplace and support their colleagues.

Smiling Mind’s seven healthy brain breaks

Smiling Mind’s seven healthy brain breaks aim to help us pause, take a breath and be proactive in looking after ourselves and others.

Move

Release the build-up of excess energy that usually accompanies stress by moving. If you’ve been on the computer all day, don’t forget to go for a walk or run outside, do some stretching, yoga or put some music on and dance around the house for a song or two.

Breathe 

Fear and anxiety start to reduce when you slow your breathing down. Try stopping what you’re doing and taking three long, slow breaths in. Try imposing a rhythm, so that your out-breath becomes longer than your in-breath. Smiling Mind recommend trying a 4-2-6 rhythm, for example, breathe for 4 counts, hold your breath for 2 counts, and breathe out for 6 counts. If that doesn’t feel comfortable, they recommend trying a 3-1-4 rhythm.

Ground

Engage your senses by consciously connecting to what’s happening in the moment. Try splashing cold water on your face, taking a hot shower, cuddling your pet or even enjoying a cup of tea.

Sleep

Getting a good night’s rest is important but can be hard when feeling anxious. If you’re having trouble, Smiling Mind recommend creating a pre-sleep routine by turning off news and screens at least an hour before going to bed. You might also like to try a meditation from the ‘Sleep’ program in the Smiling Mind App.

Connect

Social connection has been difficult during COVID-19 but staying connected to others is as important as ever. Luckily, we have so much technology at our fingertips which allows us to stay connected to our family, friends and colleagues. Try using a video during online meetings, listen and interact mindfully and pay attention to the people you’re engaging with.

Contribute

Have a think about how you might help your colleagues during this difficult time. Contributing to the wellbeing of others helps shift our attention from ourselves onto what we can do for others. This helps us connect, gain a sense of agency, and also positively impacts on our own wellbeing.

Create healthy habits

Create healthy habits by practicing mindfulness. You can try something as simple as washing your hands mindfully and taking care not to touch your face.

Click here for additional resources

*This resource provides strategies designed to be used in a proactive way and are not designed to manage or treat significant emotional difficulties. If you need immediate help please make sure you speak with your health professional or contact lifeline on 131 114.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.

Federal budget summary 2020-21

It’s all about jobs!

It was the unmistakable message from Treasurer Josh Frydenberg in this historic Budget – spend money now to get business hiring, and worry about the cost later. Or, as he put it, ‘fighting back’ in the face of the worst economic crisis in almost a century.

The centrepiece is the new $4 billion JobMaker Hiring Credit which will provide businesses with a financial incentive to take on unemployed people aged between 16 and 35, with the aim of creating 450,000 positions.

Download our full Budget summary here

Commencing 7 October 2020, the Hiring Credit will be paid quarterly in arrears at the rate of $200 a week for those aged between 16-29, and $100 a week for those aged between 30-35. Eligible employees are required to work a minimum of 20 hours a week.

New jobs created until 6 October 2021 will attract the payment for up to 12 months from the date the new position is created. Employers will need to demonstrate an increase in overall employee headcount and payroll for each new position.

Ahead of the Budget, the government announced the $1.2 billion Boosting Apprentices Wage Subsidy which will provide a 50% wage subsidy for businesses that take on new or recommencing apprentices or trainees.

The scheme is open to employers, including group training organisations, until 30 September 2021, and worth up to $7,000 a quarter. It will be capped at 100,000 apprentices and trainees.

The previously announced $1 billion JobTrainer Fund – a joint Commonwealth, state and territory program – will support up to 340,700 additional free or low-cost training places at TAFEs and private RTOs with a mix accredited qualifications and short courses, including part qualifications and skillsets.

The states and territories will have flexibility in the mix of courses to suit local needs.

Keeping the economy moving

The job creation and training initiatives are specifically aimed at propping up economic activity and sustaining employment until the economic recovery resumes.

The Budget papers indicate that the total economic support measures will result in economic activity being 4.5% higher by 2021 22.

Peak unemployment is now estimated at 8% in the coming December quarter. Without economic support, the government says the unemployment rate would have risen, and remained above 12% until 2021-22.

Reinforcing this picture, Tuesday’s Reserve Bank monetary policy statement said that while the June quarter had shrunk by a massive 7%, economic recovery was “now underway in most of Australia”, and labour market conditions have improved over the past few months.

The improving trend is also evident in the latest ANZ Australian Job Ads which rose a strong 7.8% in September following an upwardly revised 2.6% in August, notwithstanding job ads down 21% since February.

Saving the economy and hundreds of thousands of jobs comes with a staggering price tag – a total of $507 billion has so far been spent on economic support.

The budget deficit will hit $213.7 billion this year, falling to $66.9 billion by 2023-24.

Net debt will increase to $703 billion or 36% of GDP this year before peaking at 44% in 2024 – staggering, but still around half the rate in the UK, a third of that in the United States and about a quarter of that in Japan.

Australia’s GDP is forecast to fall by 3.75% this calendar year but bounce back by 4.25% next calendar year. The unemployment rate is forecast to fall to 6.5% in the June quarter 2022.

The financial cost is astronomical but the alternative was beyond imagining.

Preparing for a new era of employment services

The task of getting people into work in a better, more streamlined way also falls to the New Employment Service Model, which has been funded and will commence from July 2022.

This will be a huge technological step that will see job seekers able to manage their job searches online, without the need for face-to-face engagement with job service providers.

The Budget provided:

  • $296 million over four years for the digital system to support the New Employment Service Model.
  • $183 million to expand the current Online Employment Service.
  • $22 million to connect more young people to specialist employment services, the Transition to Work service from 1 January 2021.

A number of existing labour market programs will get funding, including $62.8 million over two years to establish the Local Jobs Program to coordinate employment and training solutions in 25 regions across Australia.

The Youth Jobs PaTH (Prepare-Trial-Hire) Internship program will become demand- driven, replacing the current capped funding.

Businesses urged to spend big, now.

For employers, more generally, one of the biggest benefits will come from the temporary deductibility of depreciable assets.

Up until 30 June 2022, businesses with turnover up to $5 billion will be able to deduct the full cost of eligible depreciable assets of any value in the year they are first used or installed. The cost of improvements made during this period to existing depreciable assets can also be fully deducted.

In addition, a temporary loss carry-back will allow companies with turnover up to $5 billion to offset tax losses against previous profits on which tax has been paid to generate a refund.

Treasury estimates that these two measures – the temporary full expensing and the temporary loss carry-back – will create around 50,000 jobs and boost GDP by about $12 billion over the next two years.

There’s some relief from Fringe Benefits Tax, with the government exempting employer provided retraining activities, and also reducing red tape by allowing employers to use existing corporate records, rather than prescribed records, to complete their FBT returns.

The personal toll of dealing with the pandemic and the economic fallout will see $4.3 million for a new mental health program for small business owners – the NewAccess for Small Business – to be delivered by Beyond Blue early next year.

There will be $19 million to encourage small businesses to digitise, through the provision of expert, tailored advice. In higher education, the Budget is funding 50,000 new short courses and 12,000 new Commonwealth supported places.

For employers of apprentices, there will be a new Apprenticeships Data Management System to replace the current TYMS (Training and Youth Internet Management System) at a cost of $91.7 million.

The fledgling National Carers Institute will get a further $29.6 million to support its role as the key driver of careers information and guidance.

The Commonwealth Department of Education, Skills and Employment has been allocated an extra $76 million for a variety of projects, including Enhanced Support for School Leavers. This is a new career support service that will offer school leavers a 45-minute personalised career guidance session with a qualified career practitioner.

If you wish to find out more, please contact your PERSOLKELLY Account Manager.

Unless stated otherwise, information was sourced from the Commonwealth Budget 2020 documents, ministerial statements, media releases and portfolio papers budget.gov.au/. This is general information only and should not be taken as constituting professional advice from Programmed. Programmed is not a financial adviser. You should consider seeking independent legal, financial, taxation or other advice to check how the information relates to your unique circumstances. Programmed is not liable for any loss caused, whether due to negligence or otherwise arising from the use of, or reliance on, the information provided.


PERSOLKELLY is one of Australia and New Zealand’s leading staffing and recruitment providers. If you’re looking for work, explore our jobs, or register your details, search and apply for jobs on GO, available free from your App store. If you’re looking for staff, get in touch with us to find out how we can support your business with great people.